IV. Rosaries
by ian ~ April 23rd, 2008. Filed under: Traditions.
Nothing apart from Mass gives Catholics more comfort and causes more spontaneous combustion among Protestants than the Rosary.
While the number of televisions per person in the United States almost boggles the mind, that statistic doesn’t hold a nine day novena candle to the number of Rosaries per Catholic in the US. If you include all the broken ones in the bottom of drawers that are going to get fixed (someday), your numbers start looking like numbers for electronic gadgets in Japan.
So what is it about the Rosary that causes Protestants to have heart palpitations? Well, the Bible has several air-tight, case-closed, how-could-you-even-look-at-such-a-perversion-of-true-prayer verses that on first glance seem to once again damn Catholics to Hell. Not that it really matters since they are all going there anyway for keeping all the books in the Bible, saying that only one person can make infallible statements about doctrine instead of anyone who can read, asking dead people for help and having leaders who wear funny hats. Oh, did I forget to mention the Inquisition? Really, with everything Catholics do wrong, it’s hard to believe that praying the Rosary would even be an issue, but any stick will do.
Basically, the problems with the Rosary come down to two things: 1) repetitious prayer and 2) praying to Mary. The repetitious prayer charge comes from Matthew 6:7-8 which reads “And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition as the Gentiles do” (New American Standard Bible). The word “meaningless” is also translated as “vain” which is the typical word used by Protestants. The problem with this charge is that no one these days is taught how to diagram a sentence. If people actually knew how to properly angle adjectives off the subject and also knew what a participle phrase is (or not), they would realize that Jesus is using “vain” or “meaningless” (on an angled line below the subject) to modify “repetition”. They would also realize that the full sentence diagram for these two verses actually forms a picture of Pope John Paul II if diagrammed in the original Greek. Or was it Latin?
Further proof that Christ didn’t believe that repetition was a problem is found in the VERY NEXT VERSE where He teaches the “Our Father” prayer. Now why the heck would Christ teach the apostles a repetitious prayer if He had just condemned such prayer? I guess He could have been playing a game of Simon Says:
“Simon says to go baptize all nations.”
“Simon says to take up your cross and follow Me.”
“Pray like this…’Our Father’”.
“Oops! Simon didn’t say ‘Simon says’. You all go to Hell!”
The second common charge against the Rosary is that Catholics are praying to Mary instead of Jesus. Refuting this charge is pretty darn tough since the main prayer in the Rosary starts with “Hail, Mary, full of grace.” And later, “Pray for us sinners now, and at the hour of our death.” I’m not Bill Clinton so I don’t think I can spin my way out of this. Yes, Catholics do ask dead people, the Mother of God included, to pray for them.
The thing is, Protestants do the same thing except they just ask living people to pray for them. What I don’t understand is why asking living people to intercede for you is fine but asking people in Heaven is a big no-no. I mean, the folks in Heaven are right there (metaphysically speaking) next to the Holy Trinity. And even more, Mary is, well, the Mother of God. Don’t you think Mom has a little more pull than everyone else when she asks Jesus to do something?
If you don’t believe me, go back and read the account of the wedding at Cana (John 2:1-11, that’s near the back of the Bible for all you Catholics). Mary doesn’t even have to ask a direct question! Instead, as comes naturally to mothers, she makes a statement with a command implied and changes the course of salvation history. Notice, Jesus says “My time has not yet come.” and Mary just ignores him! She is so confident in her position as His mother that without actually telling or asking Him to do anything assumes that He will change His plans for His salvific work because she says “They have no more wine.”
This seems proof-positive to me that not only is asking dead people to pray for us a good thing, asking Mary to pray for us is like bringing a gun to a knife fight - you always win.
So next time someone looks at you funny for praying the Rosary, rest assured that while you may look funny, praying the Rosary isn’t going to send you to Hell.
April 23rd, 2008 at 6:51 pm
OK you are definitely going to HE double toothpicks. can’t see for laughing! thank you, needed this today.
April 23rd, 2008 at 7:41 pm
Another fabulous post! You had me chuckling at the diagrammed sentence pope picture and laughing out loud at the divine Simon says.
You forgot to mention the great sense of accomplishment many Catholics feel when they complete their Rosary prayers. It’s like finishing all the food on your plate at supper - nourishment achieved, Mama’s approval gained.
While I’m here - know anyone who can fix broken rosaries and mend religious figurines? I have a few in a box in a closet somewhere…
May 2nd, 2008 at 5:48 pm
I couldn’t stop chuckliing at the diagrammed sentence bit. I guess that I probably had six years of instruction in diagramming sentences and even though I got A’s and B+’s, I never could and still can’t figure out what they were trying to teach me. Nobody has ever asked me in a job interview how to diagram a sentence.
Great job, folks!
May 2nd, 2008 at 10:33 pm
The late Malcolm Muggeridge wrote that he and a colleague back in the ’30’s
or 40’s used to contrive a few laughs over a made-up character of theirs
called Father Stinky who lurked in the backstreets of Lisbon (?) and wandered
about slashing with his rosary at young girls.
May 6th, 2008 at 8:59 am
Those of us who went to Catholic school know all about diagramming sentences. That’s why we can use great prayers with participles like, “We offer you Father this life-giving bread and this saving cup.” ( I think if you diagram that one it makes a map to the location of the Priory of Sion’s clubhouse. ; - } )
Sure beats, “Lord…we love you and uh.. we praise your name Lord, and Lord, help us, Lord.. uh… to welcome you into our hearts Lord…” ( which sounds a lot like repetition to me.)
May 6th, 2008 at 12:33 pm
I’ve been reading lately about how Protestants are getting more liturgical, getting to like Mary more, etc. When I mentioned it to my wife, she simply said, “Why didn’t they just stay with the ONe True Church? “(another term Catholics like A LOT)”They could’ve saved themselves centuries of trouble! Maybe they’ll be praying Rosaries soon—though I hope not, I like doing something everyone else thinks is crazy, evil, or whatever.
(When asked if she was “born again”, my wife once told someone “I’m a Catholic-we got it right the first time!” She really likes being a Catholic!
May 6th, 2008 at 4:32 pm
Brilliant!~
I love this quote: “Yes, Catholics do ask dead people, the Mother of God included, to pray for them.”
Said in the same manner as the boy in Sixth Sense: We speak to dead people!
May 7th, 2008 at 12:39 am
Hi, I’m new to this whole Catholic thing. So new that I’m still not sure about the whole bit. Strangely though 3 of my close protestant friends have all been drawn to the Catholic Church from all different angles and walks. Not just coincidence I think.
Anyways, to the point - your article - I feel this is heart felt defense of the rosary but in all honesty brother it doesn’t convince.
First - I didn’t find your argument (that repetition is okay because Jesus gave us the Our Father prayer) convincing. I don’t know how many times I pray the Our Father, but certainly not more than once per prayer - I don’t feel as though it was meant to be said over and over again nor was Jesus saying to pray it exactly as followed - there is the different version in Mark to evidence this and there is Jesus saying pray “like” this.
Also, I don’t understand the point you were making to the word “meaningless” and it’s translation in English - if you could show me something stating that the Greek text uses the word differently, that would help.
Second - I didn’t find your argument for Mary very convincing. I have come to the understanding that praying to the saints is Biblical, but what I was not impressed by the understanding that Mary has more weight and/or pull than the other saints.
For one thing, your interpretation of John 2:1-11. Here’s a quote from one of my friends that sums up my thoughts- “very humorous…but I do not necessarily think his bit about Mary ignoring Jesus is really something I would be caught saying.,..and I am fairly fast and loose with my blasphemies and heresy…as you well know.”
Mary having a step up on Jesus or just us? - either or, she gets a step up just because she was the first Christian? that somehow hurts my faith.
“And this is the confidence that we have toward him, that if we ask anything according to his will he hears us. And if we know that he hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests that we have asked of him.”
I have come to understand prayer, in light of God’s omniscience, is not just a way talk to God about what’s bothering us - as if He didn’t know - but as a way of submission to God and Christ. That’s why it was easy for me to accept praying to/with those in Christ already - because it helps us become more humble. If praying to Mary is like getting whatever the heck you pray for OR receiving insta-humbleness - neither which we would have received if we only prayed to God or some of the other saints - then I went horribly a miss with the whole Bible thing.
Third and finally - there is another objection that many protestants have that you missed. Results. All though I’m falling in love with Catholicism, I dare say that if I had children of my own, that I would let them grow up under Catholicism. Reason being - dollar for dollar - protestant upbringings have had more success producing Christ-centered adults than Catholics. My entire family - on both sides - were Catholics - all 70+ members (2 big families you see.) My parents were the first protestants and in my opinion the first Christ-centered. Now as the families of the Catholics lay almost in ruins, there was little wonder why almost half became protestant.
It was only when I ran into a Catholic who loved Christ more than me and was closer to God more than me, (and being annoyed with the way my church was going helped), that I decided to listen up. Catholics were (and still are) the only reason that kept me from their Church, and it only took one at the right time and place to rock my world. However, my point still standing is this.
What has the rosary or all the tradition in the world, ever done for the Catholics? Where are the results? I have actually seen with my own eyes a protestant’s prayer cure cancer! With my own two eyes! The people that I know that are Catholic keep rosary’s in the rear view mirrors for good-luck and one by their bed side to pray themselves to sleep hoping they get that brand new BMW.
So you say the rosary every night? SO WHAT? If it doesn’t help you to become more Christ-like then what is it’s purpose? And if it’s faith in Christ and a humble - not anything actually inside the beads - that make you more Christ-like then you are OBVIOUSLY defending the wrong trench my good sir.
Well, I hope I didn’t sound too condescending, and I do hope you or someone would reply to me graciously for many a times my protestant mind clouds my thinking. I am but a simple mind, hopefully, I can make up for it with a pure heart.
For the King,
Mark
May 7th, 2008 at 5:42 pm
You know what’s funny about the “vain repetition?” That Jesus does it at the Garden of Gethsemene (Matt 26)..”If it may, let this chalice pass from me, but not my will but thy will be done (JPV Joe Parapharse version). He did it 3 tmes, but yeah.
great post.
May 8th, 2008 at 1:07 am
I just looked up Matt 26, and read the entire chapter and didn’t find Jesus repeating anything. He said a similar prayer twice, but nowhere near what anyone would call an exact repeat. (NASB)
May 8th, 2008 at 9:19 am
To Mark:
Thanks for asking. Here’s a good link
http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2006/0603fea2.asp
Criticizing repetition is a little like the Pharisees criticizing Our Lord
for healing on the Sabbath: Jesus healed this guy! It’s a miracle! HEY!
Wait a second… today’s the Sabbath. You’re not supposed to do anything on the Sabbath! Scripture says “Keep holy the Sabbath!”
Also, I just want to point out the apparent contradiction between
“I have come to understand prayer, in light of God’s omniscience, is not just a way talk to God about what’s bothering us - as if He didn’t know - but as a way of submission to God and Christ.”
and
“What has the rosary or all the tradition in the world, ever done for the Catholics? Where are the results?”
You seem to be rejecting the rosary as a formula for getting results, (what Christ was criticizing), but then demand proof of results, such as healing of cancer. You say the Protestant’s prayer cured cancer. How do you know? Anyway, wasn’t it God who cured the cancer? Your criticism of the Rosary seems to be based on ideas that you seem to hold valid for Protestants but invalid for Mary. Nowhere is submission to God in Christ more evident than in Mary’s “Let it be done to me according to His will.” in the first mystery of the rosary. As for results, there are always results but they’re not always the ones we ask for. If I pray for a cure, either I get it or I learn to accept it as Jesus accepted His cross and to suffer as Mary suffered seeing her son whipped, humiliated, and barbarically murdered. The mysteries are crucial to the rosary, no pun intended.
Another thing about the rosary and formulaic prayer. I couldn’t paint the Mona Lisa, but I could paint something remotely resembling it with a paint by number set. The lines form a guide. So it is with the rosary. Nowhere in the rosary will you find “I” “me” or “my”, three words that fill my own spontaneous prayer. (Oops, it’s the very first word of the Apostle’s Creed, and it occurs again in the same prayer. But you get the point.) If the rosary and reflection on its mysteries makes me escape my own narrow outlook and makes me even a little more like Christ (and his mother whose “Let it be done to me” is very similar to her Son’s Not my will but Yours be done”) then it’s fine by me.
You said the only thing keeping you from the Catholic Church was Catholics. Gandhi said something similar about Christ and Christians.
Wouldn’t it have been better for him to get past us Christians to Christ?
Please don’t let us keep you from the Church. It’s far greater than its flawed parts.
DocemeDomine
May 8th, 2008 at 10:10 am
Dear Mark,
To add to Docemedomine’s post might I add that the Rosary really is not vain repetition because it consists of spoken prayer as well as meditation. Mary is a very important saint because, at the foot of the cross, Christ made Mary the mother of the Church. (And, through the Immaculate Conception, she lived without sin. No other saint did.)
As to results, that’s another thing entirely. I could sit here and talk about the many miracles that happened as a direct result of the Eucharist, but you’re asking specifically about the Rosary so here goes. There are many Catholics who do believe silly things like the Rosary bringing good “luck.” However, keep in mind the Church does not believe or condone that. The Rosary is a petition for the help of Mary (who, as I said above, lived a sinless life) in our everyday life. It’s not meant to be used for asking for a new BMW. Keep in mind that God still answers prayers in His own time, even if Mary is praying for us. Docemedomine had a great point about trying to get results out of prayer. The Rosary isn’t a sort of slot machine. That is to say, the person praying it isn’t betting on whether or not their prayer will work. Even if the Rosary never gives a person what they think they want, it is helpful in a different way. I frankly get a sense of peace through just praying it. It’s relaxing and soothing simply to be praying in the presence of God with the Virgin Mary. If you’re rejecting the Rosary as a working form of prayer, you’re rejecting all forms of prayer. Do you honestly think God will answer one form of prayer and not the other? Since when is God so picky? If the person praying for the cancer victim had been saying the Rosary instead, do you think the cancer wouldn’t have been cured? That’s kind of harsh.
If your only problem with the Infallible Church is the people in it, take a look around at the Protestants. No one is perfect and no matter what you belong to there will be silly people in it. This is not a matter of finding what church suits you or what type of people in what church suit you. This is a matter of finding the true Church, is it not?
Oh, also keep in mind that before you get too cynical about this Rosary post, this is supposed to be a humorous blog.
Peace be with you.
May 8th, 2008 at 10:27 am
Mark,
Firstly, this is supposed to be a humorous blog. If you want an information-packed site about the Rosary, I suggest you look elsewhere.
The Rosary isn’t repetition because while saying the prayers, a person is supposed to be meditating on Jesus’ life. Jesus warned us away from meaningless repetition. (By the way, the point Ian is trying to make here is that meaningless also can be translated as vain. Vain here meaning “trying in vain” or rather, “praying in vain,” if that clears things up for you.)
Concerning Mary… she’s the mother of God! That makes her just a wee bit more important than the other saints, no? She lived a sinless life thanks to the Immaculate Conception (Mary was saved from original sin at conception. Therefore, she lived a sinless life). No other saint can boast that. If you believe in praying to the saints, why don’t you look up their lives and see how devoted they were to Mary. We do not use the Rosary to get new BMWs, though some may try. She helps us with getting the humbleness that she had. DocemeDomine explained that really well so I’m not going to bother explaining it further.
As for “results”, I think DocemeDomine pretty much covered that. Honestly, do you think God would be so picky as to not answer one form of prayer, but another? If the person praying for the cancer victim had done so through the rosary, do you think the cancer would not have gone away? God answers things in His own time. Having Mary praying for us is not guarantee that He will give us everything. We can only hope some of her holiness rubs off on us.
In the end, all churches have silly people in them. The real question is not whether you like a church but whether or not it is the true Church… the Church Christ founded. Last time I checked, Martin Luther is not Jesus Christ. Some people will always put Rosary beads in their cars for good luck. Some people will always pray for completely pointless things they don’t need. You can’t tell me Protestants don’t do that because I’m sure they do. But if you’re not going to do silly things like that, why bother worrying about those who do?
Peace be with you.
May 8th, 2008 at 12:07 pm
There is repetition in prayer in the bible, look at Psalm 136. The refrain “For his love endures forever.” is repeated 26 times.
The point of this is that repetition isn’t evil, but useless repetition. If I were to say Psalm 136, even hundreds of times, it wouldn’t bring me closer to God. What’s necessary is the prayer aspect; our uniting to God. When Catholics pray the Rosary they are not merely SAYING 5 Our Fathers, 53 Hail Mary’s and a few other prayers for effect, they are UNITING themselves with Jesus. The point of the Rosary is to draw us into the mysteries of Christ’s life, death and resurrection, that’s why each decade is a meditation on the life of Christ.
May 8th, 2008 at 12:27 pm
Mark,
The meditation on the mysteries is supposed to help us become more Christlike. Does it make us perfect? No, but protestants will (or should) admit that they don’t become perfect after any of their devotions either. That is why we need Christ. Meditating on His life, and that of His most blessed Mother helps us to see where we fall short, and pray to do better.
Jesus honors Mary because she is His mother. He is obeying the commandment. I honor her because Jesus does. To not do so would not be Christlike. Don’t you do your very best to do as Jesus did?
Finally Mark, do you really believe that the successful result of prayer could only be getting exactly what we want? Sometimes the results of my prayers is a new God given strength to face the problem I’m praying about. Just because my problem does not suddenly go away, it does not mean that God did not answer my prayer. He answered my prayer by helping me face my problem, and perhaps even see it as a gift, or at least a way that He leads me in a different direction.
I love Jesus because he saved me! I love Mary because she gave birth to my savior willingly, and Jesus loves her! She was there on Calvary, trying to be of comfort to my savior as He died for me. He obviously loves her, as He entrusted care of her to His most beloved disciple. That disciple in turn honored her. If He wanted that disciple to honor her, why not you and me?
Peace be with you.
Helen
May 8th, 2008 at 1:51 pm
To echo what Christina said, this blog is humorous, (not that this precludes it from being informative). Don’t take the part about ignoring Jesus too literally. There have been books written, some of which are mentioned in the link I posted. Scott Hahn’s Hail Holy Queen is great.
Another thing Catholics like is defending our faith, and it’s good to hear other people put the same things in different ways. I’ll bet the Catholics that keep Mark from the Church don’t know enough about the faith to do that. I’ll bet they’re also bad citizens, fair-weather sports fans, and listen to nothing but Top 40. Glad he found a knowledgeable one of us who votes in elections, knows the state capitals, and knows David Cook murdered The Who’s Baba O’Reilly last night on American Idol, no matter what all 3 judges said.
DocemeDomine
May 9th, 2008 at 4:59 am
Knowledgeable? HA! I laugh in the face of all who say so! Who shot J.R.? Where’s Jimmy Hoffa? If you’re going the speed of light in a car, what happens when you turn on your headlights? Can God microwave a burrito so hot, even He couldn’t eat it? Do zombies get a second chance at baptism if they weren’t baptized in their first life?? huh? huh?! That’s what I thought, all talk.
In response, I think there is a lot of confusion due to my lack of ability to speak English. I believe I speak some dialect of Markonian. But I must try to clear up the confusion, for everything everyone is responding to me is not in disagreement with what I was saying (or trying to say that is.)
So, here goes, my second crack at it. If I fail here, just feel free to kick me in the groin.
By Results, I mean fruit. And by fruit, I mean spiritual fruit. And by spiritual fruit, I mean evidence of Christ-likeness or growing into Christ-likeness.
So therefore, submission to Christ/humbleness would be fruit. So therefore if you gain fruit from the Rosary, GREAT. If your friend gets cured from cancer, GREAT. If your friend doesn’t get cured from cancer and as such you grow from that experience, THANK GOD.
So in light of this revelation into Markonian, the apparent contradiction of myself demanding results, yet blaming people for the lack of them is not a contradiction. If I am unsatisfied with the amount of fruit/Christ-likeness (ah, the new term sounds better) a particular belief about how to pray to God is bringing into someone’s life, I can in fact blame them, not the style.
My essential point, was that the style didn’t matter if the person praying didn’t have the right heart, and when in fact a person did have the right heart, rosary or no rosary it didn’t seem to make the difference. And from there, since the rosary is foreign to me, and since I haven’t seen enough evidence for a 45 minute straight-up repetitions being strictly Biblical or making anybody a better Christian alone (i.e. was it the rosary or the heart?) I find no reason to go through a numbing experience again and again.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not quite sure whether or not I think the rosary is totally useless in it’s repetitive style, for I myself practice repetition when I’m memorizing scripture. Just that, in memorizing scripture I actually feel like I’m accomplishing something. (yes, I know, you could pull out every argument for memorizing scripture, that I pulled out against the rosary. But in all honesty, I and many other protestants, would agree that we see more people doing the rosary thingee in vain, than people memorizing scripture in vain.)
thanks guys for your understanding
May 9th, 2008 at 8:43 am
I’m not sure you’re looking for an answer, Mark, just an argument. I guess you wouldn’t really know what the Rosary could do for you if you haven’t even tried it. If you find it doesn’t work, fine. If it does work, great. Obviously like every prayer different people will get different experiences. Frankly, after a day at school I look forward to praying the Rosary. It helps me understand Christ’s life more. Every time I’m meditating on the mysteries, a new revelation seems to hit me, some aspect of His life that I had never thought of before. Understanding what exactly Christ did is a good step to understanding how to be like Him, and it’s made all the easier to have His mother praying for you.
May 9th, 2008 at 9:54 am
Mark,
Thanks for the clarification. I’ll just say rosary beads are like rowing machines. (I used to row in college). People have them but don’t use them, or people use them only occasionally, or people use bad technique
(It’s legs-back-arms-arms-back-legs-legs-back-arms-arms-back-legs).
It’s the most repetitious thing, and it’s easy to get sloppy as you get tired, and the machine is stationary so you’re not actually going anywhere, and you don’t get the splash or the sound of the oarlocks in unison. But if you stick with it, you get a full body workout and you grow in discipline, you’ll be better trained for a real race, and you’ll be better formed, even if you don’t do it completely correctly. Are all rowers, tall, chiseled, lean masses of muscle? No. But a pipsqueak like me was able to row for an hour at a moderate pace while a tall chiseled basketball player who tried it couldn’t keep the same pace for 5 minutes. You can’t go by appearances. It’s the discipline and the mysteries.
I think they should put home exercise equipment on Stuff White People Like, if they haven’t already.
May 9th, 2008 at 11:17 pm
I still don’t feel like I’m disagreeing with anybody here on my main point, which means I did in fact fail at a second attempt to explain. Okay, so here it is in it’s simplest form. What good is X (place in here anything - Lord’s Prayer, Rosary’s etc. ANYTHING) if it doesn’t bring one closer to Christ?
That’s my first essential argument with results/fruit -
from all the Catholics I know (not heard of, or listen to or read about - ranging from greats to terribles, oh and Peter Kreeft podcasts are the bomb) I haven’t seen one out of the couple hundred or so, be anything more than stale in their faith. So every time I think about the richness of the Catholic Faith, I have constantly luring in my mind the lack of impact it had.
So now I have these “what good is it” goggles looking at everything yet still warming up to all things Catholic and likewise I still have questions about everything - then I was sent here (probably for the humor), looking to be convinced from my protestant ways, and come to find that I wasn’t.
Vain Repetition, or Repetitions in Vain - who knows - it’s in English not Greek anyways. - my protestant view, unshaken
Rosary’s are great b/c of Mary? Mary was great to be sure - repeating scripture is great as well. That doesn’t convince me that Rosary’s alone do the trick, not after everything I’ve seen (i.e. those w/o doing better than those with) - my protestant view, still unshaken
You say - try it. I have. It was boring. My uncle next to me, who was saying it, was in the middle of divorcing his wife - something I thought was rather anti-Catholic - but that was another clear reminder that I knew the truth about rosary’s all along (and by truth I mean my raw experiences which are not truths but only slices of it - but that’s not what was going threw my head at the time.)
So please don’t hate on me. (I don’t have to call you out by name - you know who you are, re-read your posts, ma’am and you are clearly attacking me for questioning. And yes, I’ve been getting a little better at trying to not let Catholics get in the way of Catholicism.)
Look, I’ll end with this, (b/c these posts have been sucking a lot of mental energy out of me - reading, re-reading, responding, trying to understand everything from different points of view, etc.) I think we can all agree that if we’re honest, God is bigger than any tradition he gave us. After God setup the Levitical sacrificial system, what does He do? He goes and tells us that he desires obedience, not sacrifice. So it’s easy for a protestant to feel like He’s a with King David eating the priests food - a capital sin - or with Jesus among His disciples being hated on for healing on the Sabbath. This is only an easy feeling, and a feeling it will remain. And as long as there are people that hold to tradition more than Christ and hate on those who hold on to Christ instead of their tradition whether it be protestant, catholic, orthodox or otherwise the feeling will remain, whether or not you can show proof that God, Himself, gave that tradition to you.
May 10th, 2008 at 6:54 am
Mark, I think you are an imposter. The people who responded to you did so with love and chose their words with care and you say you are being attacked for questioning? That Helen or Elizabeth (for the life of me I can’t tell who you are referring to) is ‘hating on you’? Come on now. You are a shrewd anti-Catholic who refuses to understand the traditions of our faith or even try to. ‘Your protestant view - unshaken’. You are not ‘warming up’ to Catholisiscm — you are looking for a fight. We’ll pray for you– when we say the rosary.
May 10th, 2008 at 9:44 am
Thank you, Laura. I am assuming Mark is referring to me. If I have offended you, Mark, I am sorry. But if you would reread your posts, sir, you would understand you are being impossible to deal with. If you have tried it and don’t think it “works.” We have prayed it more times than you and we believe it has changed our lives for the better. I ask you, if you truly want to know more what it’s about, try it again. I thought it was deadly dull the first time I tried it too. But look up the mysteries and try praying it again. Just give it another chance is all I ask.
Peace be with you.
May 11th, 2008 at 5:10 pm
Mark, I thought I was done posting, but it’s hard to stop. I’ll bet you come back to look again,too, and I hope you read this. I hope you didn’t think I was hating on you. I’m not. I have a few responses to your latest comments in mind, but I’m not going to say them. Why? Because they wouldn’t convince you. And because it’s time to let it go. Not that you’re stupid or pigheaded, but because you have some strong views that are hard to change. I’m glad you posted them and that you’re questioning. I have in mind the Flannery O’Connor short story The Barber, which illustrates the futility of argument. St. Peter tells us to be prepared to give a reason for our hope, but he doesn’t tell us to make other people hope. We can’t. That’s the Holy Spirit’s job. I’d encourage all the Catholics to keep that in mind when posting. Go to amazon.com and look up a Catholic book, and look at the Customer Forum section, and look at the level of discourse there. They’re battling, not discussing. Sometimes it’s just not worth it. Pray for them.
I hope you keep reading, Mark. At least it’s humorous. The humor of the blog is in looking at us from an outsider’s perspective. That outsider may be a Greek Orthodox, an atheist, a Jew, etc. Some of the posts, to borrow from the T shirt, are “A Catholic thing- you wouldn’t understand.”, (that is unless you ask or research). The Lay People post is a great example. A Protestant whose church has “Greeting Ministry” or “Refreshment Ministry” or “Pass out Bibles” ministry might not grasp the irony of the post, due to different understandings of what “going to Church” is, the relationship between “a church” and “The Church”, and the priestly vocation. Problem is, a lot of Catholics don’t have a good understanding of that either, and they’re the ones who are having a little fun poked at them. Same with the felt banners.
I don’t know, maybe you get that joke, Mark, but others might not. Thanks for making me think about things. Time for me to get on with my life. I hope.
DocemeDomine
May 18th, 2008 at 5:40 pm
In my youth I found the rosary boring, and hard to get through. But much like any exercise, practice, and focus makes one stronger. In this case stronger in my faith in Christ Jesus. What started out as a little understood practice, both the history and the meaning of the rosary has over the years blossomed. One turing point was a night years ago when I was an orderly in a Psychiatric Ward. I was called in because nobody else could be there, just a nurse and myself in a ward that was normally staffed by five. I was feeling very ill, aches all over my body and could hardly move. I decided to pray the rosary to make time go by. That night I prayed the sorrowful mysteries, and the passion and death of our Lord came alive through the meditation on the mysteries. It took some time before I was able to live the mysteries on a more consistant basis, but that night was the breakthrough, after a few years of persistance, and practice, I was able to gain an insight that I may not have if I had just set aside the practice.
When I originally learned the rosary, (my family did not practice the faith) by following the devotion in an old St. Joseph Daily Missal that I found, I would look at the pictures for each of the mysteries, wondering if I would ever learn them and not need the missal to recite the rosary. To this day the pictures from the missal are still vivid in my mind when I pray the rosary. The difference is initially they where lifeless paintings, and after years they have become animated, they tell the story of Christ’s redemtion of the world. The Rosary has not made Mary a replacement for Jesus, but rather it is the way that the Mother of Jesus introduced me to her son, Jesus.
It is said we know someone by the people that hang around them. I know Jesus better by knowing the Saints and their lives, writings and the ways they have glorified Christ. They have not taken any of my worship of Jesus, nor Faithfulness to Him away, but rather inhanced it.